Monday 15 June 2020

Mainstream shi'ite beliefs until the mid second century Hijri


مفاتيح عملية الاستنباط الفقهي (478)

478th lecture in the "Keys to deriving jurisprudential rulings" series (part of 'Dars al kharij' level lectures) by Ayatullah Kamal al Haydari

ما هو اعتقاد ابان بن تغلب في التشيع؟ وما هو تعريف التشيع عند أبان؟ هذه القضية مهمة جداً، أن ابان الذي هو ثقة جلدٌ صدوقٌ ومن اعيان اصحابنا نسأله، التشيع في زمان الامام السجاد والباقر والصادق ما هو؟ هذا كتاب رجال النجاشي صفحة 12، الرواية هذه عن عبد الرحمن بن حجاج قال كنا في مجلس ابان بن تغلب فجاءه شابٌ فقال يا ابا سعيد اخبرني كم شهد مع علي بن ابي طالب من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وآله؟ يعني عندما دخل المعارك في صفين وجمل وغيره هل كان معه من أصحاب رسول الله أم لم يكن؟ طبعاً من المئات أصحاب رسول الله كانوا مع الامام امير المؤمنين ولم يكن في الطرف الاخر الا بعدد الاصابع، فقال له أبان: كأنك تريد أن تعرف فضل عليٍ بمن تبعه من أصحاب رسول الله، فقال الرجل هو ذاك، فقال: والله ما عرفنا فضلهم الا باتباعهم إياه، إلى أن يقول: يا فلان أتدري من الشيعة؟ الشيعة الذين إذا اختلف الناس عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أخذوا بقول علي عليه السلام، واذا اختلف الناس عن عليٍ أخذوا بجعفر بن محمد الصادق عليهما أفضل الصلاة والسلام، أين العصمة؟ يعرف الشيعة، لو كان تعريف التشيع يتوقف على الاعتقاد بالعصمة لذكره ابان؛ لانه الان في مقام التعريف، والتعريف لابد أن يكون جامعاً ومانعاً، لا يمكن أن يقول هذه قضية مهملة، هذه ليست قضية مهمة يبين من التشيع؟ التشيع انه اذا اختلف الناس عن رسول الله فالحجية والطاعة وافتراض الطاعة لعلي، واذا اختلف الناس عن علي فالطاعة لجعفر بن محمد

What is the belief of Aban b. Taghlib in Tashayyu? What is the definition of tashayyu according to Aban? This is a very important matter, as Aban is a reliable, staunch [shia], very truthful, and an icon among our companions. We are asking him: "What was tashayyu in the days of Imam al Sajjad, al Baqir, and al Sadiq?" This book is "Rijal al Najashi", [on] page 12, there is the narration from Abdur Rahman b. Hajjaj, who said: "We were sitting with Aban b. Taghlib, then a youth came to him and asked: How many companions of the Prophet (pbuh) fought on Imam Ali's side?" [explanatory commentary by Ayatullah Kamal al Haydari] as in, when Imam Ali entered the wars of Siffin and Jumal, did he have the companions of the Prophet on his side or not? Naturally, there were hundreds of companions on Imam Ali's side, while the opponents had so few that they could be counted on fingers. [Narration continues] "Aban answered: [It seems] as if you want to gauge the merit of Ali based on who followed him among the companions of the Prophet? The [young] man answered: Exactly! Aban replied: I swear to Allah, we [instead] do not acknowledge their merit unless they followed him. Aban went on to say: Do you know who is a 'Shia'? 'Shia' are those, when the people differ about [teachings of] Prophet, they refer to the judgement of Ali. And when the people differ about Ali, they refer to the judgement of Ja'far b. Muhammad." [Ayatullah Kamal al Haydari's explanation] Where is the infallibility? He [Aban] knows the Shia, so if the definition of Tashayyu relied on the belief in infallibility then Aban would have mentioned it because he is speaking in the context of defining, and the definition must be comprehensive and exhaustive, it is not possible for him to use the excuse 'it was just a trivial matter' [because] is not defining tashayyu an important matter? Therefore, Tashayyu is, when people differ about the Prophet, then authority and obligatory obedience is for Ali; and when people differ about Ali, then obedience is for Ja'far b. Muhammad.

9 comments:

  1. lol, this idiotic donkey has still not got a life and even after a decade is still doing propaganda against shias. just so people dont get fooled, the whole article is a lie, because it supposedly quotes king Najashi (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najashi) who died during the lifetime of rasulallah and way before imam zainul abdin was even born! this western agent's lies are so obvious. if you want to know the beliefs of early shias then look at salman farsi who believed in highest levels of wilayat takwini and had such high maarifat that even abu zar couldnt handle it

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    1. You idiot, Najashi is also a classical shia acholar of ilm al rijal. The quote is from his book. 🤦‍♂️

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  2. so does ayt kamal hydri not believe that imams are masoom?

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    1. No, he does strongly believe that they're ma'soom (he also believes they're 'wasatah al faydh' i.e. intermediaries for everyone for all the bounties of Allah), but he does not believe that belief in infallibility is a condition of being a Shia. This post was meant to show his interpretation of the beliefs of the early Shias, in the time of Ali b. Hussain, al Baqir and al Sadiq.

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    2. Does he (kamal hyderi) believe that belief in the infallibility of Anbiya (a.s) and Rasools (a.s) is a condition of being a Momin? If yes, then its strange that belief in infallibility of Aimmah (a.s) is not conditional.

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    3. from a quick cursory search i couldnt find if he considers infallibility of prophets to be condition of being momin/shia, but my guess is that he does consider it a condition considering that all muslims consider them infallible ( albiet with differences in its scope). In the case of imams though, since earlier shias didnt consider the imams to be divinely appointed and considered them esteemed scholars instead (and hence didnt consider them infallible), syd haydry tries to reconcile the positions of early shias and latter shias, by stating that its not a condition of being shia to consider the imams divinely appointed and infallible, but believes it is better if we do

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    4. Excellent 👍 reply bhooka bro do U have an email account to get in touch with

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  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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