*Link to the audio file as well as transcription of the lecture is also available here: Ayatullah Mutada Ja'far al Amuli's site
"It is not necessary that all views present throughout history in the Jewish ideology, be evil. (No) This is not necessary. There have been things which originated from religion. But then as for arba'een, so it does not have any basis in Islam. As per Islamic law, neither do we have a week of mourning nor forty days, we have been ordained only three days of mourning and whoever carries on mourning afterwards is only freshening the sorrow. Three days, then the door of remembering the dead is closed, period. Just remember him with duas (supplications) and sadqah (charity), as for holding of a gathering on the first arba'een and then us repeating that year after year as seen in past years, so this does not have any Islamic basis whatsoever. I am not saying that it is haram, no it is not so, but it is not from the followings of Islam. It may or may not have Jewish origins, Allah knows best. Perhaps some Muslims believe that this occasion is suitable for the gathering of people; especially as it entails preaching, righteous guidance and meeting of people for positive causes.
Now as for ziyarah al arba'een, so it has not been mentioned in our ahadith (1). We do have a hadith saying that the signs of a momin (believer) are: wearing ring in the right hand, commencing with bismillah, praying fifty one rakahs and doing ziyarah al arba'een (doing visitation of forty). Some people have interpreted 'ziyarah al arba'een' as doing ziyarah of Imam al Hussain on the day of arba'een. But that is incorrect, it actually means visiting forty believers (2). However, Imam Hussain (as) is a shaheed (martyr) in our view, there are recommended ziyarahs for him such as ziyarah on day of arafah, in (mid of) sha'ban etc, but as for ziyarah al arba'een, so there is no istihbab (merit) in it."
(1) Translator's note: The mutaqaddamin such as Shaikh Kulaini or Shaikh Ja'far b. Qawluweh al Qmmi (author of Kamil al Ziaraat) never mentioned any hadith about ziyarah al arba'een. The latter only mentioned ziyarahs on days of ashura, arafa, mid sha'ban etc. The earliest hadith about the recommendation of ziyarah al arbaeen comes from Ibn al Qawluweh's student, Shaikh Mufid (in 'Al Mazaar') in mursal form (without chain), followed in turn by his student Shaikh Tusi who narrated 3 ahadith about it in his works (Tahdhib and Misbah). So overall, the 3 ahadith about arba'een, come from the latter Baghdadi scholars in mursal fashion. While ziyarah of Imam Hussain is highly recommended, on any day(including arba'een), but there is no specific hadith from earlier sources at all about doing it on arba'een (unlike how we have ahadith for doing it on ashura, arafa etc).
(2) Translator's note: However, as for interpreting the term 'ziyarah al arbaeen' found in the latter sources as the visitation of forty believers, it does not seem to have any precedent or support. The earlier giant scholars, from Shaikh Mufid to Shaikh Hurr al Amili, understood it to mean ziyarah of Imam al Hussain (as) on 20th Safar. They created chapters in their books called 'Desirability of doing ziyarah of Imam Hussain on arbaeen' and reported this hadith (the giant scholars who interpreted this hadith as ziyarah of Imam Hussain on arba'een, are simply too many to be listed). Neither does this interpretation have linguistic support. Contemporary scholars, from Ayatullah Murtada Ja'far al Amuli to Shaikh Al Dur al amuli, have linguistically refuted this isolated interpretation. Below, is also an excerpt from 'Al-Islam.org' (the most mainstream shia website in this age, run under the supervision of Ayatullah Sistani's office), refuting this interpretation:
"To twist the meaning of ziyarat al-arba’een by saying that it means visiting the grave-sites of forty believers is simply indicative of twisted minds, an attempt at distortion, one which good taste resents. Moreover, it is without any foundation. Had the goal been to visit forty believers, the Imam (ﻉ) would have used the term "ziyarat arba’een [mu’mineen]." The original wording indicates that ziyarat al-arba’een is one of the conditions enumerated in the hadith cited above saying that it is one of the marks of one’s iman and an indication of his loyalty to the Twelve Imams (ﻉ)." (Source: Karbala and Beyond, by Shaikh Yasin T. al Jibouri)
Nonetheless, regardless of the interpretation, this hadith does not form a hujjah (proof) as it is coming from the latter sources.
Conclusion: The desirability of 'ziyarah al arbaeen' specifically is not established, as no hadith has been reported for it from our earlier sources.
*A common misconception: A common belief, regarding origin of arbaeen, is that the ahlulbayt returned from Syria (after being held prisoners by Yazid ma'loon ibn mal'oon) to Karbala (on way to Medina) on the 20th of Safar, where they met Jaber b. Abdullah al Ansari who had also come for ziyarah. This incident is not historically correct. Below is an excerpt from 'al-islam.org':
"Only Sayyid bin Tawus has written in Luhuf, contrary to the historical and geographical evidence, that on return from Damascus the Ahlul Bayt proceeded to Iraq when they reached the parting of the ways to Iraq and the Hijaz (a place which is not identified even by the geographers) and on the 40th day of the Ashura they reached Karbala. Sayyid bin Tawus was, no doubt, a great person. Allama Hilli has acknowledged that he performed unusual feats and there is no denying the fact that he enjoyed high status.
However, it is not possible to attach any value to this statement of his from the historical viewpoint and it is not known whether he himself believed in this narration which is not based on any authority. In any case this matter needs investigation and research.
As a matter of principle it is opposed to common sense that everything should be accepted without any investigation, study and comment. Even if Sayyid bin Tawus had been our contemporary we would not have approached that great scholar in this particular matter, and his remark in a book, which according to the researchers was written in his youth, would not have carried any historical value for us. It is a vulgar and foolish way of thinking that whatever is said by anyone or is written in any book should be accepted as correct and free from errors.
The path of research and criticism is always open to the intelligent persons and research scholars of history .According to the Muslims of the world in general there is only one person whose remarks cannot be erroneous in the least and he is the Holy Prophet. According to the Shi'ah school, however, this distinction is enjoyed by the Holy Prophet as well as by Lady Fatima Zahra and the twelve Imams whose infallibility is proved by reason as well as by narrations." (Source: A probe into the history of Ashura, by Dr. Ibrahim Ayati)
'Al Hawzah al Ilmiyah Tudain al Inhiraf' by Ayatullah Muhammad Ali al Hashmi al Mashhadi, page 70
Wow, good to see the cat finally coming out of the bag. The true colours of bhooka are now finally beginning to show, regarding what people like me had been warning for AGES. So he had initially began with posting slightly less controversial things when the blog was new, but now he is openly even attacking the pillars of our shia religion. He is attacking ziyarat al arbaeen, the centrestage of azadari becausehe knows azadari IS shiaism. Once azadari is stopped, then shiaism will disappear from the earth.
ReplyDeletePLEASE BHOOKA FOLLOWERS, WAKE UP BEFORE ITS TOO LATE! PLEASE SAVE AZADARI!!!
Shoeb they aren't his words but works and words of marjas as always except for few cases where he says his own stuff. Although an unnecessary and out of touch post
ReplyDeleteSo should we go for arbaeen procession this year, and in future years, or not?????
ReplyDeleteso stupid.. The fact that narrations on direct Ziyarah of Arbaeen from the Imam's (as) exits is a sufficient proof that this is not a Bidah... Using the rijaal and chain of narrators as a method to reject or put aside a narration in itself is a Bidah as its not supported by teachings from the Imam's (as)....
ReplyDeleteAnd yes.. 40 days does have significance.. Read over Kamil al-Ziyarah.. you will find narrations in which the skies cried blood for 40 days after the Martyrdom of Imam Husain (as)... so yeah.. Arbaeen is surely mentioned in our narrations.
ReplyDeleteThat further supports my point, that despite there being ahadith in kamiluz ziaraat about skies weeping blood for 40 days, the author did not report any ahadith about ziyarat al arbaeen specifically. And I did not question the issue of ziyarah al arbaeen due to rijal or chain of narrator, that's a pretty minor issue, I raised the issue due to no hadith about it actually existing in our earlier hadith books.
DeleteThat's a really good point.
DeleteThat does not support your point. Its a flawed logic, absence of narration in a particular book does not prove anything. You also forget that many books have not reached us, so if you use the argument that its not quoted in earlier books then it can very well be said that it must have been quoted in books which did not reach us.
DeleteThe fact that we have narrations is sufficient because later books get their narrations from earlier sources and all earlier sources did not reach us. There are basis to call this a Bidah since we have narrations.
Correction... There are NO basis to call this a bidah...
DeleteCan someone PLEASE refute this nasibis post??? I am really beginnig to doubt our faith now. PLEASE someone refute him!
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing to refute because the writer has himself admitted that we do have narrations on Ziyarah of Arbaeen, and scholars have accepted and trusted those narrations. And his reasoning of "narrations not existing in earlier books" is flawed because all the earlier sources/books did not reach us. This is most stupid logic one could ever use to call something as Bidah, while this logic itself is a Bidah.
DeleteYou can see the narrations here:
www.almilani.com/عربي/مكتبة-الكتب/1_وسائل-الشيعة/3780_باب-تأكد-استحباب-زيارة-الحسين-عليه-السلام-يوم-الاربعين-من-مقتله-وهو-يوم-العشرين-من-صفر
Also, calling Ziyarah al Arbaeen a bidah is rejecting those narrations of the Imam's (as). And the Imam's (as) have used strong words against rejecting their narrations. See the below narration:
Deleteحدثنا محمد بن الحسين عن محمد بن اسماعيل عن حمزة بن بزيع عن على السنانى عن ابى الحسن ع انه كتب إليه في رسالة ولا تقل لما بلغك عنا أو نسب الينا هذا باطل وان كنت تعرفه خلافه فانك لا تدري لم قلنا وعلى أي وجه وصفة.
Muhammad b. al-Husayn narrated to us from Muhammad b. Isma`il from Hamza b. Bazi from Ali the as-Sinani from Abu ‘l-Hasan (as) that he wrote to him in an epistle,
"And do not say for what reaches you from us and is attributed to us “this is false” even if you have known its opposite, for verily you do not know why we said (it) and upon which aspect and attribute."
[Source: Basair Al-Darajat Pg. 538]
It always amazes me how people get so hysterical over such minor things. If your faith revolves around azadari and araba'een, then maybe you need to read the Qur'an and remind yourself of what the religion is really about, which is worship of Allah.
ReplyDelete"such minor things"???? Brother are you serious?? Azadari is the PILLAR of shiat. Azadari is what makes us shia and unites us! Whenever enemies try to attack us, they attack azadari. That's what colonists did in india and other places to weaken shias.
DeleteAnyways, again i implore my brothers, I BEG you PLEASE refute this nasibi dog's post! PLEASE! Can someone please refute his posts here, or better yet on a neutral site like shiachat, so that this nasibi cannot delete the rebuttals there unlike here where he will just delete any comments that refute him!!.
^^^Seconded. If there is any knowledgeable brother or sister around, with an account on shiachat, that please post a refutation there. Don't post it here, this najis nasibi can never be trusted, he'll delete any good refutation. Please knowledgeable brothers/sisters, post a refutation of him on shiachat so that our doubts can be cleared.
ReplyDeletePillar? What planet are you people on? Anyway, the brother isn't attacking azadari in the sense of mourning for Imam al-Husayn (as), all he has done is question the authenticity of ziyarat of arba'een. He has provided some arguments in his favour, and if you were mature individuals you would do the same to refute him. If you aren't capable of even attempting to refute him yourselves, then I'm not sure how you are so sure he is wrong, and what gives you the right to call him a Nasibi dog. I hope you have knowledge of the unseen to see what is in his heart, or else you might face some uncomfortable questions on Yawm al-Qiyamah.
ReplyDeleteYou need to be less hysterical when it comes to people questioning things. Questioning is how humankind advances, and those who blindly follow in their father's footsteps just end up stuck in ignorance. It is only backward societies that lack self-confidence that fear questions, and try to silence anyone who tries to ask any. If someone challenges something you believe in, then refute them in an academic way that will strengthen the yaqin of those who believe in these things. By hurling insults at someone, while offering no counter-arguments of your own, all you do is give the impression that he might actually be right.
To be honest I feel sorry for many of you, that this would actually be a big deal one way or the other. I can safely say that my faith wouldn't change one bit whether or not there is any significance to Arba'een, or any of these other details that you get so worked up about.
Great research SHAYKH Bhooka!
ReplyDeleteLOOL@Shaykh Bhooka!
ReplyDeleteSo now this retarded donkey is a shaykh for his followers, wow!
How is that you consider this blog run by a "retarded donkey" and yet still manage to read and comment every post that is being made? What does that make you exactly if you read information provided by a retarded donkey?
ReplyDeleteI dont read his posts cuz i like them, ok? I read and comment here to EXPOSE and REFUTE him, understand?? Through internet it is easy for this filthy dog bhooka to brainwash young shias, I try to protect them and warn them all the time by commenting here, and will continue to do so until i defeat him.
ReplyDeleteIt is ridiculous to see here in Toronto, how many young shias have now completely changed, they now follow the filth propagated by this nasibi and reject the beliefs of our forefathers which none of us shias had ever questioned before. I say again, please bhooka followers wake up and stop reading and following his blog, this guy is a NASIBI!!
When proof is being brought and written...You dont "refute" anything by just warning and calling people bad names which they dont deserve, only because you dont agree with their views.
DeleteYou refute by bringing your proof, which nobody so far has done here. So instead of wasting your time reading this blog run by a "retarded donkey" as you say, try writing refutations and make your own blog... Oh wait that would actually take some effort and time which you dont want to spend and also knowledge of the sources which you obviously dont have... Of course its easier to just make a 1 minute comment and call bad names.
Do you actually believe that by what you are doing people will listen to you?
"It is ridiculous to see here in Toronto, how many young shias have now completely changed, they now follow the filth propagated by this nasibi"
DeleteYou better hope you are right about Bhooka, or else you are going to have a bad time on judgement day.
"and reject the beliefs of our forefathers which none of us shias had ever questioned before."
Well, you know what the Qur'an says about blindly following the beliefs of your forefathers.
Instead of insulting him, which isn't going to convince anyone, why don't you just calmly, and academically, refute him?
Mr Haider why do you always lie? Why dont you just admit that you are a wahabi, or does a wahabi like you have now started believing in doing taqiyya?
DeleteGreat Post Bhooka! Been meaning to make a post regarding this. So we have hadith on the skies weeping for 40 days, but that's the initial 40 days after the death of Imaam Hussayn (AS). Meaning 40 days + 10th Muhammad 61AH is 20th of Safar 61AH.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the hadith of the Imaams ever continually doing this for 40 days every year? Please do not give me the "taqiyyah" excuse card. And if you want to base your religion on "books that haven't reached us" then so be it. We will not be held accountable for something that has never reached us, whatever we have is whatever we can assess for our religion.
Books that dint reach us? Tahzeeb al-Ahkaam did not reach us?
DeleteUsing the Mursal card to reject the narration is the last thing the hadees followers should use because the system of Ilm-e-Rijaal is in itself not established from the narrations from the Imam's (as).. so we can clearly see who is looking at things that have not reached us..
http://www.mezan.net/sounds_files/sounds1/39/r039.html
ReplyDeleteHere is a hadith where Imam Sadiq (as) teaches the ziyara to do on the 40th day (in the early source Tahdhib from Tusi) :
تهذيب الاحكام
2- حدثنا محمد بن علي بن معمر قال: حدثني أبو الحسن علي بن محمد بن مسعدة والحسن بن علي بن فضال ، عن سعد بن اسلم ، عن صفوان بن مهران الجمال قال: قال لي مولاي الصادق صلوات الله عليه في زيارة الأربعين: تزور عند ارتفاع النهار وتقول: السلام على ولي الله وحبيبه ، ألخ.. إلى آخر الزيارة. بحار الأوار - المجلسي ج-98 ص331 ، مصباح المجتهد – الطوسي ص 788 ، المزار – المشهدي ص 514 ، اقبال الاعمال – ابن طاووس ج-3 ص101 ، المزار – الشهيد الأول ص 185 ، تهذيب الاحكام ج-6 ص113.
In this hadith Imam Sadiq (as) teaches the ziyaraat, but here it is replaced by ... to shorten the hadith
You posting this actually prooves once again that you didnt read the blogpost. The Hadith your quote here is adressed in the blogpost like this:
Delete"The earliest hadith about the recommendation of ziyarah al arbaeen comes from Ibn al Qawluweh's student, Shaikh Mufid (in 'Al Mazaar') in mursal form (without chain), followed in turn by his student Shaikh Tusi who narrated 3 ahadith about it in his works (Tahdhib and Misbah). So overall, the 3 ahadith about arba'een, come from the latter Baghdadi scholars in mursal fashion. While ziyarah of Imam Hussain is highly recommended, on any day(including arba'een), but there is no specific hadith from earlier sources at all about doing it on arba'een (unlike how we have ahadith for doing it on ashura, arafa etc)."
So this Hadith is mursal and is not taken as proof.
Its so funny watch you guys raging about this blog and the brother who makes critical yet useful blogposts. And every single time it turns out you guys dont even read whats written here. You only read the heading and start raging like Wahabi idiots.
Lol!! Where did bhooka vanish now after getting refuted?!
ReplyDeleteHaha look who is refuted now? I guess Anonymous (15. January) refuted himself
DeleteOnly usuli or sunni muslim, with their ridiculous rules, are rejecting mursal ahadith, and considering tahdhib as a late source.
ReplyDeleteIf we had to take our religion only from the 400 usul, then you wouldn't not have much to practice and would be quite ignorant of what really happened.
Beware of rejecting this hadith where Imam Sadiq (as) teaches the ziyarat to do specifically on Arba'een, when questioned : " قال لي مولاي الصادق صلوات الله عليه في زيارة الأربعي"
ReplyDeleteBecause we can read in Al Sahih Min Kitab Basair al Darajat :
(45) حدثنا أحمد بن محمد (ثقة) عن الحسن بن محبوب (ثقة) عن جميل بن صالح (ثقة) عن أبي عبيدة الحذاء (ثقة) عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال :
( سمعته يقول : أما والله إنّ أحب أصحابي إليّ أورعهم وأفقههم وأكتمهم بحديثنا وإن أسوأهم عندي حالاً وأمقتهم إليّ الذي إذا سمع الحديث ينسب إلينا ويروى عنا فلم يعقله ولم يقبله قلبه اشمأزّ منه وجحده وكفر بمن دان به وهو لا يدري لعلّ الحديث من عندنا خرج وإلينا سند فيكون بذلك خارجاً من ولايتنا ).
* الحكم : صحيحة
Told us Ahmad b. Muhammad (trustworthy), from al Hasan ibn Mahboob (trustworthy), from Jameel b. Saleh (trustworthy), from Abi Ubaidah al Hadha' (trustworthy) who said: I heard Aba Ja'far(as) say: "By Allah(swt) I love my companions to be pious ones and ones with understanding and secretive of our(as) ahadith and verily worst state of them and hated of them near me is one who when hears the hadith attributed to us and narrated from us, so he doesn't accept it, is disgusted of it and he rejects it and declares kufr on one who professed by it while he doesn't know perhaps the hadith came out from us and is outsourced from us, so by that he would be expelled from our wilayah."
Grading: Sahih (correct/authentic)
Miraat ul uqool
و روى الصدوق في العلل بإسناده الصحيح عن أبي بصير عن أحدهما عليهما السلام قال: لا تكذبوا بحديث أتاكم به مرجىء و لا قدري و لا خارجي نسبه إلينا، فإنكم لا تدرون لعله شيء من الحق فتكذبوا الله عز و جل فوق عرشه
And narrated al Sadooq(ra) in al Illal (Illul ul sharai) with sahih (authentic) sanad (chain of narration) from Abi Baseer from one of the 2 Imams(as) who said: "Don't reject hadith which has come to you people through murj'i, qadari and kharji attributed to us, for verily you people don't know perhaps it is something from the truth so you rejected Allah(swt)above His (swt) throne."
Al Sahih Min Kitab Basaer ad Darajaat
حدثنا محمد بن الحسين (ثقة) عن محمد بن إسماعيل (ثقة) عن حمزة بن بزيغ (ثقة) عن علي [بن سويد] السائي (ثقة) عن أبي الحسن عليه السلام :
(أنه كتب إليه في رسالة ولا تقل لما بلغك عنّا أو نسب إلينا هذا باطل، وإن كنت تعرف خلافه فإنك لا تدري لم قلنا وعلى أي وجه وصفة )
* الحكم : صحيحة
Told us Muhammad b. al Hussain (trustworthy), from Muhammad b. Ismail (trustworthy) from Hamza b. Bazigh (trustworthy), from Ali [b. Suwaid] al Saai (trustworthy) from Abi al Hasan (as): That he (as) wrote to him in a message, "And don't say of what comes to you from us or is attributed to us "this is false", although you had known its opposite for verily you do not know why we said it and upon which of its point/aspect and attribute."
Grading: Sahih (authentic)
http://www.duas.org/safar/arbaeen.htm
ReplyDeleteRefutation of Bookha :
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mezan.net/sounds_files/sounds1/39/r039.html
Brother, is Ziyarat of Arba'een not recorded in Misbah al Kabeer by Sheikh al Tusi? It is not Mursal it has an isnad aswell.
ReplyDeleteWa Salaam