Monday 8 August 2011

Women scholars, a good thing?

Jamia Tuz Zahra is Iran's largest women's seminary and houses 800 of its 3,000 students
 

موسوعة أحاديث أهل البيت (ع) - الشيخ هادي النجفي - ج ١١ - الصفحة ٣٢٤

Mausu’ah ahadith ahlul bayt (as) by Ayatullah Hadi al Najafi, Volume 11, Page 324

تأديب النساء

 Disciplining the women

 ١٤١٨٥] ١ - الكليني، عن علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن النوفلي، عن السكوني، عن أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): لا تنزلوا النساء بالغرف ولا تعلموهن الكتابة وعلموهن المغزل وسورة النور (٣
الرواية معتبرة الإسناد
٣) الكافي: ٥ / ٥١٦ ح ١

[14185] 1- Al Kulaini, from Ali b. Ibrahim, from his father, from al Nofali,from al Sakooni, from abi Abdullah (as) who said: "Do not let the women come down the rooms and do not teach them to write, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor."  

The narration is of reliable isnad (chains of narration).

(Kafi by Shaikh Kulaini (ra), Volume 5, Page 516, Hadith 1)

١٤١٨٦] ٢ - الكليني، عن عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن علي بن أسباط، عن عمه يعقوب بن سالم رفعه قال: قال أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام): لا تعلموا نسائكم سورة يوسف ولا تقرؤوهن إياها فإن فيها الفتن وعلموهن سورة النور فإن فيها المواعظ (٤
٤) الكافي: ٥ / ٥١٦ ح ٢

[14186] 2- Al Kulaini, from a group from our companions, from Sahlb. Ziad, from Ali b. Asbat from his uncle Ya'qoob b. Salim who lifted it (the chain of narration), he said: Ali (as) said: "Do not teach your women Surah al Yusuf and do not read it to them for indeed in it is the sedition, while teach them Surah al Noor for indeed in it is the preaching." 

(Kafi by Shaikh Kulaini (ra), Volume 5, Page 516, Hadith 2)

كتاب من لا يحضره الفقيه — الجزء الثالث
للشيخ الجليل الاقدم الصدوق أبى جعفر محمد بن على بن الحسين بن بابويه القمى
المتوفى سنة
381

 

Man la yahdhuruhul Faqih by Shaikh Sadooq (381 AH), Third Volume 

 

4534 - وروى عبدالله بن سنان عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: (ألهموهن حب علي عليه السلام وذروهن بلهاء

 

4534 - And narrated Abdullah b. Sinan from Abi Abdullah(as) who said: "Inspire the women with love of Ali(as) (and) leave them idiotic."
 

4535 - وروى إسماعيل بن أبي زياد عن جعفر بن محمد عن أبيه عليهما السلام عن آبائه عليهم السلام قال: (قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله: لا تنزلوا نساء‌كم الغرف ولا تعلموهن الكتابة، ولا تعلموهن سورة يوسف، وعلموهن المغزل وسورة النور

 

4535 - And it's narrated from Isma'il b. Abi Ziyad from Ja'far b. Muhammad (as) from his (as) father (as) from his forefathers (as) who said: Rasool Allah (PBUH) said: "Do not let your women come down the rooms and do not teach them to write, and do not teach them surah al Yusuf, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor." 

 

الفروع من الكافي - الجزء الخامس

تأليف:
ثقة الاسلام ابي جعفر محمد بن يعقوب بن اسحاق الكليني الرازي رحمه الله
المتوفى سنة 328 / 329 ه

 

 Furu' al Kafi, Volume 5. Compiled by Thiqat al Islam Abi Ja'far Muhammad b. Ya'qoob b. Ishaq al Kulaini al Razi (ra) (328/329 AH)

 

باب في تأديب النساء

Section on disciplining the women.

(10223) - 1 - علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن النوفلي، عن السكوني، عن أبي عبدالله (ع) قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: لاتنزلوا النساء بالغرف ولا تعلموهن الكتابة وعلموهن المغزل وسورة النور 

 

(10223) 1- Ali b. Ibrahim, from his father, from al Nofali,from al Sakooni, from abi Abdullah (as) who said: "Do not let the women come down by the rooms and do not teach them to write, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor."  

 

(10224) - 2 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن علي بن أسباط، عن عمه يعقوب بن سالم رفعه قال: قال أمير المؤمنين (ع): لا تعلموا نساء كم سورة يوسف ولا تقرؤوهن إياها فإن فيها الفتن وعلموهن سورة النور فإن فيها المواعظ 

 

(10224) 2- A group from our companions, from Sahlb. Ziad, from Ali b. Asbat from his uncle Ya'qoob b. Salim who lifted it (the chain of narration), he said: Ali (as) said: "Do not teach your women Surah al Yusuf and do not read it to them for indeed in it is the sedition, while teach them Surah al Noor for indeed in it is the preaching." 

 

(10225) - 3 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن سهل بن زياد، عن جعفر بن محمد الاشعري، عن ابن القداح عن أبي عبدالله (ع) قال: نهى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أن يركب سرج بفرج

 

(10225) 3- A group from our companions, from Sahl b. Ziad, from Ja'far b. Muhammad al ash'ari, from ibn al Qadah from abi Abdullah (as) who said: "The Prophet (pbuh) forbid that a saddle be mounted/ridden by a furuj."

 

(10226) - 4 - عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن أبي عبدالله، عن محمد بن علي، عن إسماعيل بن يسار، عن منصور بن يونس، عن إسرائيل، عن يونس، عن أبي إسحاق، عن الحارث الاعور قال: قال أمير المؤمنين (ع) لا تحملوا الفروج على السروج فتهيجوهن للفجور

 

(10226) 4- A group from our companions, from Ahmad b. abi Abdullah, from Muhammad b. Ali, from Ismail b. Yasar, from Mansoor b. Yunus, from Israel, from Yunus, from abi Ishaq, from al Harith al A'oor who said: Ali (as) said: "Do not carry/load the furooj upon a saddle for you will stimulate them to immorality."

 

 

كتاب وسائل الشيعة للحر العاملي (1104 هـ) الجزء20 صفحة176 

Wasail al shia by Shaikh Hurr al Amili (ra), Volume 20, Page 176

92 ـ باب كراهة انزال النساء الغرف وتعليمهن الكتابة وسورة
يوسف ، واستحباب تعليمهن الغزل وسورة النور ، ووجوب
أمر الاهل بالمعروف ونهيهم عن المنكر


92- Section on dislike of women coming down the rooms and teaching them writing and surah al Yusuf, and desirability of teaching them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Nur, and the obligation of enjoining good and forbidding from evil to the household/family. 

[ 25355 ] 1 ـ محمد بن يعقوب ، عن علي بن إبراهيم ، عن أبيه ، عن النوفلي ، عن السكوني ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : قال رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) : لا تنزلوا النساء الغرف ولا تعلموهن الكتابة وعلموهن المغزل وسورة النور .
ورواه الصدوق بإسناده عن إسماعيل بن أبي زياد ، يعني السكوني ، مثله

[25355] 1: Muhammad b. Ya'qoob, from Ali b. Ibrahim, from his father, from al Nofali, from al Sakuni , from abi Abdullah who said: "Do not let the women come down the rooms and do not teach them to write, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor."
And Shaikh Sadooq (ra) narrated it by his isnad (chains of narration) from Ismail b. abi Ziyad, i.e. al Sakuni, similar to it.

[ 25356 ] 2 ـ وعن عدة من أصحابنا ، عن سهل بن زياد ، عن علي بن اسباط ، عن عمه يعقوب بن سالم رفعه ، قال : قال أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) : لا تعلموا نساءكم سورة يوسف ولا تقرؤوهن اياها فإنّ فيها الفتن وعلّموهنّ سورة النور فانّ فيها المواعظ .
  
[25356] 2- A group from our companions, from Sahlb. Ziad, from Ali b. Asbat from his uncle Ya'qoob b. Salim who lifted it (the chain of narration), he said: Ali (as) said: "Do not teach your women Surah al Yusuf and do not read it to them for indeed in it is the sedition, while teach them Surah al Noor for indeed in it is the preaching."

[ 25357 ] 3 ـ محمد بن علي بن الحسين بإسناده عن عبدالله بن سنان ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : ألهموهن حب علي ( عليه السلام ) وذروهن بلهاً 

[25357] 3- Muhammad b. Ali b. al Hussain by his isnad (chains of narration) from Abdullah b. Sinan from Abi Abdullah(as) who said: "Inspire the women with love of Ali(as) (and) leave them idiotic."

[ 25358 ] 4 ـ قال : وسئل الصادق ( عليه السلام ) وعن قول الله عزّ وجلّ ( قوا انفسكم وأهليكم نارا ) كيف نقيهن ؟ قال : تأمروهن وتنهونهن قيل له : إنا نأمرهن وننهاهن فلا يقبلن ، فقال : إذا أمرتموهن ونهيتموهن فقد قضيتم ما عليكم

[25358] 4- He narrator) said: And he asked al Sadiq (as) about the saying of Allah (swt) (in Al Qur'an 66:6): "save yourselves and your families from a Fire", how do we save/protect them? He [Imam (as)] said: "Command them and forbid them." It was said to him [Imam (as)]: "We do command them and forbid them but they do not accept." So he (as) said: "When you commanded and forbid them then you have fulfilled what is upon you people."

Translator's note: In the Arabic text, the feminine form for "them" and "they"has been used, therefore the hadith is talking about women.

أقول : وتقدم ما يدل على ذلك في الامر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر وفي قراءة القرآن في غير الصلاة وفيما يكتسب به، ويأتي ما يدل عليه

I (i.e. Shaikh Hurr al Amili) say: "And there has preceded what proves upon that regarding the enjoining of good and forbidding from evil, and regarding recitation of al Qur'an outside the prayers and on what is acquired by it, there is to come what indicates upon it."

مستدرك الوسائل - الميرزا النوري - ج ١٤ - الصفحة ٢٥٩

Mustadrak al Wasail by Muhadith Noori, Volume 14, Page 259

٧٢ (باب كراهة إنزال النساء الغرف، وتعليمهن الكتابة
وسورة يوسف، واستحباب تعليمهن الغزل وسورة النور،
ووجوب أمر الأهلين بالمعروف ونهيهم عن المنكر

Section 82- Dislike of women coming down the rooms, teaching them writing and Surah al Yusuf, and the desirability of teaching them spinning and Surah al Noor, and the obligation of enjoining good to one's family and forbidding them from the evil.

١٦٦٤٧) ١ الجعفريات: أخبرنا عبد الله، أخبرنا محمد، حدثني موسى
قال: حدثنا أبي، عن أبيه، عن جده جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه، عن جده
علي بن الحسين، عن أبيه، عن علي (عليهم السلام)، قال: " قال رسول
الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): لا تنزلوا النساء الغرف، ولا تعلموهن الكتابة،
وعلموهن الغزل وسورة النور

16647) 1- (From the book) al J'afriat: Informed us Abdullah, informed us Muhammad, told me Musa who said: Told me my father, from his father, from his grandfather Ja'far b. Muhammad, from his father, from his grandfather Ali b. al Hussain, from his father, from Ali (as) who said: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Do not let the women come down the rooms and do not teach them writing, while teach them spinning and Surah al Noor."

٦٦٤٨) ٢ وبهذا الاسناد قال: " قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله
نعم شغل المرأة (المؤمنة) الغزل

6648) 2- And by this isnad (chains of narration) he said: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Yes, pastime of the believing woman is spinning."

  ١٦٦٤٩) ٣ وبهذا الاسناد، عن علي (عليه السلام)، قال: " أتى النبي صلى الله عليه وآله رجل من الأنصار بابنة له، فقال: يا رسول الله، ان
زوجها فلان بن فلان الأنصاري، وإنه ضربها فأثر في وجهها، فقال رسول
الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): ليس ذلك لك، فأنزل الله عز وجل:
(الرجال قوامون على النساء بما فضل الله به بعضهم على بعض وبما انفقوا
من أموالهم) (١) أي قوامون على النساء في الأدب، فقال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله
): أردت أمرا وأراد الله غيره ".
روي هذا الخبر وسابقه في الدعائم: مثله

16649) 3- And by this isnadd (chains of narration), from Ali (as) who said: "A man from the ansar (people of Medina) came to him (pbuh) with his daughter and said: O Prophet of Allah (swt), her husband is so and so and he struck her so it effected her face." So the Prophet (pbuh) said: "That is not for you, for Allah (swt) has revealed [Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women) (4:34)], that is, in charge of women in disciplining/chastising." Then the Prophet (pbuh) said: "I wanted something but Allah (swt) willed something else"

And this narration and the one previous to it are narrated in al Da'aim (Da'aim al Islam by Qadi Nu'man) likewise.

١٦٦٥٠) ٤ وبهذا الاسناد قال: " قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله):
اضربوا النساء على تعليم الخير " وفي نسخة الشهيد: " الخبز
".
16650) 4- And by this isnad (chains of narration) he said: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Strike/hit the women to teach them the goodness."

(١٦٦٥١) ٥ القطب الراوندي في لب اللباب: عن النبي (صلى الله عليه
وآله)، أنه قال: لا تسكنوا نساءكم الغرف، وتعلموهن الكتابة،
واستعينوا عليهن بالعري، وأكثروا عليهن من قول: (لا) فإن (نعم)
يغريهن على المسألة

16651) 5- Al Qutub al Rawandi in Lub al Lubab: From the Prophet (pbuh) that he (pbuh) said: "Do not lodge your women in the room, and teach them writing, and seek support upon them with deprivation, and say often to them "No" for indeed "Yes" lures them to problems."

١٦٦٥٢) ٦ الشيخ ورام في تنبيه الخاطر: عن رسول الله (صلى الله عليه
وآله)، أنه قال: " عمل الأبرار من الرجال الخياطة، وعمل الأبرار من
النساء الغزل

16656) 6- Shaikh Waram in Tanbih al Khatir, from the Prophet (pbuh) that he said: "Occupation of the righteous among the men is sewing, and occupation of the righteous among the the women is spinning."

١٦٦٥٣) ٧ الآمدي في الغرر: عن أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام)، أنه
قال: " إن رأيت من نسائك ريبعة (فعاجل) (١) لهن النكير على الصغيروالكبير، وإياك أن تكرر العتب فإن ذلك يغري بالذنب، ويهون
العتب

16653) 7- Al-Amdi in al Ghurar (Ghurar al Hikam): From Ali (as) that he said: "Indeed I saw among your women doubt (so hasten) to forbid them from the lesser and major (sins), and beware of constant reproaching for indeed that lures them to sin, and tone down the reproaching. 

التفسير الصافي - الفيض الكاشاني - ج ٣ - الصفحة ٤٥٢

 Tafsir Safi by Mulla Faidh Kashani, Volume 3, Page 452

في ثواب الأعمال والمجمع عن الصادق عليه السلام قال حصنوا أموالكم وفروجكم بتلاوة سورة النور وحصنوا بها نسائكم فإن من أدمن قراءتها في كل يوم أو في كل ليلة لم يزن أحد من أهل بيته أبدا حتى يموت فإذا هو مات شيعه إلى قبره سبعون ألف ملك كلهم يدعون ويستغفرون الله له حتى يدخل في قبره

It has been reported in Thawabul 'Aamal by Shaikh Saduq (ra) and Majma' al Bayan by Shaikh Tabrisi from Imam al Sadiq (as) that he said: "Fortify your wealth and honor by the recitation of Surah al Noor and fortify by it your women, for indeed whoever made a habit of reciting it every day or at each night then no one among his household would ever commit fornication till he dies, then when he dies then seventy thousand angels will follow him to the grave, all of them supplication and asking for forgiveness of his sins from Allah (swt) till he is buried in his grave.

وفي الكافي عنه عليه السلام قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله لا تنزل النساء الغرف ولا تعلموهن الكتابة وعلموهن المغزل وسورة النور اللهم ارزقنا تلاوته

And it is narrated in Kafi from him that he (as) said: The Prophet (pbuh) said: "Do not let the women come down the rooms and do not teach them to write, and do not teach them surah al Yusuf, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor." 

(Mullah Faidh Kashani says) O Allah! Bless us with its recitation!







14 comments:

  1. wallah now what i can expect from you brother ...!

    this is rubish

    ReplyDelete
  2. Why is this rubbish? This hadith is from Man la Yahdhuruhul Faqih which consists of ahadith by which the compiler, Shaikh Sadooq (one of our greatest scholars), would give fatawa. You can find it here (page 442, hadith 4535:
    http://www.al-shia.org/html/ara/books/lib-hadis/faqih-3/a144.htm

    BTW, if you're a female and you felt offended, then I apologize. I didn't post this to offend anyone.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I wonder if Lady Fatima knew Surah Yusuf and whether if she was a scholar or not

    ReplyDelete
  4. @Anonymous: Salam,

    There's no explicit evidence to suggest that she(as) would recite surah al Yusuf and although she was a masooma and has a VERY high rank, but nonetheless she was not an Imam and therefore we didn't receive Islamic jurisprudential instructions from her (we got them from the Imams(as)) so she(as) definitely didn't carry the role of scholars like our Imams(as).

    That said, the point of the blog is to portray the true face of tashayyu without any regard to political correctness. This is an explicit hadith from our primary book by which our greatest scholar Shaikh Sadooq would give fatawa, and our Imams(as) knew better than feminists what they(as) ere talking about.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Salam Alaikum

    This is ridicoulous you are shaming us shia.
    Please tell a scholar/shiek to expalin to you what the hadith means otherwise like the quran Ahadith also have a context.

    And your saying this is real-tashayyu

    ReplyDelete
  6. @Anonymous: Walaikum assalam,

    As for this hadith and asking a shaikh/scholar to explain it, that has already been done. I've taken this hadith from Shaikh Sadooq(One of our greatest scholars EVER)'s book Man la yahdhuhul Faqih in which he included ahadith which he considered sahih and by which he would give fatawa and he considered all ahadith he put in his book hujja between him and Allah(swt). As for difficult/ambiguous ahadith, he provided his as well as his mashaikh's explanations for them. For further details, read this:

    http://realtashayyu.blogspot.com/2011/02/authenticity-of-ahadith-in-man-la.html

    ReplyDelete
  7. Salam

    Please read the long comment in the "career woman" hadith regarding how this hadith would be perceived,and if there is anyway the interpretation of this can be verified with today's Shia scholars?

    I'm not sure which one seems to be more odd-this or that, because history does not seem to have followed either of them.
    Also, how can a woman realistically ever be expected to live in one room all her life? Wouldn't that be impossible? Or at-least highly degrading her role as a human being with God's given rights?
    Bibi Fatima, Bibi Khadija, Lady Sumaiya, all the ladies of Karbala, the mothers of Karbala, and soo many more..Bibi Hajar was sent away into the desert plains to manage on her own..all got out of their room..and there are sooo many more examples.

    Muslim women are strong, confident, and bold. They do not interact with unrelated men unnecessarily, but they surely aren't locked up, oppressed and treated inferior than men either(only some patriarchal cultures do so, religion doesn't).

    Once again..I'm not a feminist, but just curious, and hoping no nonMuslim ever feels that Islam oppresses its women-because it doesnt. Women are the jewels of Islam, and men and women are created equal in the eyes of God. We have been told several times that Allah swt only judges people by their emaan, and not their gender.

    It's just that Muslims around the world have worked so hard to make others realize that our religion does not oppress woman, and gives them equal rights....and then we see a hadith like this. That just seems weird. And then it shouldn't be surprising to wonder why the world hates us (I deal with non Muslims a lot, and many of them are interested in atleast learning about Islam-but always keep complaining about the status of women, but they would surely have run away if they ever saw this)

    So please, once again, no offense meant at all. I highly respect the fact that you are trying to spread knowledge, but I highly urge you to check this with some scholar before anyone else accesses it and goes astray from Islam (which is HIGHLY likely if they read this), because this is sensitive knowledge for which (assumed authentic), the explanations have to be done with EXTREME care in today's world.

    Thankyou
    Wasalam

    ReplyDelete
  8. Bismillah
    Salam

    One question: would you do the same with your daughters if Allah gives you any?
    Will you obey this hadith, keep her in the house, bar her from basic education and teach her only to spindle?
    Will you teach her to read Qur'an from a book? Wouldn't that also mean teaching her letters, and thus writing? Will you tell her to read God's Word but not read Surah Yusuf at all?
    Or would you "try" and "put it into context" - in other words, do Ijtihad on the hadith?

    And if it is Weak/dha'eef, and you yourself won't obey it in the future, or wouldn't have obeyed it, why post it?

    I am honestly curious.

    wasalam

    ReplyDelete
  9. Before speculating something about the status of Syeda(as)keep this in mind,that in authentic Hadees,Imam Askari(as)said that like we are Hujjat upon u,our Grandmother Fatima(as)is hujjat upon us.Now if She didn't hold jurisprudential position like Imams(as)how could She be their Authority,they never gave such status to their Mothers even.There are various eveidence where She talked about divinely knowledge even to Her Husband,so it clearly indicates Her knowledge was directed from Allah,not from Men of Her Family.Every Imam(as)married a scholarly Lady of His time,so these traditions stand nowhere.Bibi Khadija(as)was working lady as well,and her professional life was never despised by Prophet(saww).Stop talibanization.And it doesn't matter who quoted what fallibles can make mistakes,but there can be no mistake in the lifestyle of Infallibles(as).

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  10. Jamiat al-Zahra is affiliated to schools that teach stitching tho..just sayin!

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  11. @bhooka_bhairiya

    Could you post the Grading of all Hadith

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  12. salamat

    [14185] 1- Al Kulaini, from Ali b. Ibrahim, from his father, from al Nofali,from al Sakooni, from abi Abdullah (as) who said: "Do not let the women come down the rooms and do not teach them to write, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor."

    The narration is of reliable isnad (chains of narration).

    Brother how is this chain reliable?
    Al-Nofali is weak
    Al-Sakooni is weak

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  13. interesting...just curious also--on many of your other posts you bother with the hadith grading--any reason why you abstain here?

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  14. This is sad. May Allah forgive you and protect people from being misled.

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